LC: Then we will have to bring these products in - but the distinction between personal care and nutrition products is important.

(back to dental care)
(Experts)

LMH: Will we have baking soda in the toothpaste section of the store? Will we have it in the detergent and fridge deodorizer section.

LC: We should sell baking soda and other old-fashioned green products (Bon Ami, Borax, TSP, baking soda, etc.).

JG: TSP is illegal in Vermont where, as is true in many states, you cannot sell phosphates. Borax has arsenic in it.

(back to dental care)
LB: Fluoridation issues - knows someone who is working against it - we don't know if it is really bad or not.

LC: The issue is that Sodium LAUREL Sulfate causes cancer but you can never find the author of these claims. It is a huge Internet rumor.

JG: One article on MedLine that said four people got a skin allergy. The purported reason is that the processing of the coconut oil (with petroleum?) produces residual something that is carcinogenic.

LB: There has to be an independent study done. SCS could do it but would not pay for it.

LC: Maybe Proctor & Gamble would pay for it. LB: They have probably already done it - as long as they are selling Tide, etc., they don't want to rock the boat.

Shower Curtians
(Issues)

LC: MM and LC had a debate about the non-organic cotton shower curtain LC wants to sell. MM thinks we should not sell any non-organic cotton. LC says vinyl is (usually) a serious out-gasser, bad upstream, etc. We also get a great deal on the shower curtain. We'd love to sell an organic cotton shower curtain, a recycled plastic shower curtain and, possibly, a hemp curtain (if we decide to sell hemp).

(hemp discussed briefly and then it is decided that the argument will be put off until later. The rest of the disk records a conversation revisiting the issues of dental care. They are all written above, under Dental Care)

Soap and Shampoo

JG: You have to provide the information that when the claim is made that the product is not animal tested that is probably because the ingredients have probably at some point been tested on animals - we have to clarify this.

LB: IF you (as a manufacturer) didn't test the product but are relying on the (animal) test results of your upstream supplier - then it is the...

LC: ...most offensive type of claim.

JG: It is not incorrect to say that something is not animal tested but it is (generically) misleading.

LB: You could commission the Federal Trade Commission on some of these questions - if you identify specific products and ask them for a ruling - they might just give you one - it is one of their jobs.

JG: He had heard that they don't do that...

LB: She has had to face several challenges from the FTC based up complaints made by competitors to someone they certified. So she knows that they do this, having been on the receiving end.

JG: Understands that there is a grace period between when you change the product and when you change the label.

LB: (agrees) Stock in inventory is often O.K. for a year or two. There is no specific time frame. It is based on the size of the company, inventory, production, hardship of transporting, etc. It is always case by case.

JG: It would be a great idea for us to know what the process is. JG now knows what is and is not on an MSDS (sheet), for example. It is all in the federal register. So we can ask the manufacturer for more information, though some of them may say "I'll tell you but you cannot tell your customers..."

LC: Then we'd have to make a decision about that...

Towels
(Issues)

JG: What about Organic certifiers? Will we get our cotton certified?

LB: NutriClean (SCS), California Organic Farmers and all the various certifiers do food. In terms of livestock, SCS doesn't do it and she doesn't know others who do it. There was an organic food bill that passed in 1990 - partly USDA administered - the USDA defined livestock definitions, and may have addressed the issue of sheep, but no one agreed with the definitions.

JG: Thinks that they withdrew them… LB: Doesn't think there is anything definitive on the books right now… JG: There is now organic certification of animal products (meat) and there did not used to be (at least a year ago).

LC: